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Darya Surzhyk: "The idea of our brand is that you can and should feel good at home"
Ogonyok has been working with the Ukrainian brand Sleeper almost since the day it was founded - all this time we have been watching their growth and success with admiration. I can safely say that this is the most famous Ukrainian brand in the world, which I am proud of - both personally and as a partner. Of course, when I was thinking about my column "Brand Heroes" on the blog, I dreamed of talking to the Head of Sales of the brand - and finally I managed to do it. So today I am pleased to present to you Daria Surzhyk and our interview with her - about how she literally grew before my eyes from the position of assistant to team leader, the work of the brand during quarantine and the challenges it brought, building relationships with foreign partners and the importance of taking care of your end consumer. I was very pleased to visit the Kyiv office of Sleeper and talk with Dasha for several hours in a row - especially in the context of the fact that the development of Ogonyok and Sleeper took place in parallel. I hope this text will be useful to everyone who already works in sales, has their own brand, or is just going to create one or enter a foreign market. Enjoy reading.
Jordan: — Dasha, hello. My first question: how did you get into the fashion industry and directly into Sleeper? Was this your first job? Tell us about your professional path.
Darya: — I got into this field when I was sixteen. Even then, I was interested in everything related to fashion and even more so in business. I started working at Mercedes-Benz Fashion Week — I participated in organizing shows, helped backstage, and basically wanted to get all the experience possible, to see how it works from the inside. After that, I got into a French-Canadian magazine — I worked remotely with it for six months as a representative in Ukraine. I visited exhibitions, shows, events, documented them, and wrote about contemporary Ukrainian art. As I went through each stage, I realized more and more that I wanted to go into the business sphere.
I was very interested in fashion, but from a business perspective.
At that time, I read a lot of different resources, especially 'Business of Fashion' - it was just starting to gain popularity at that time. I followed new interesting startups in fashion that worked at the intersection of fashion and technology. And also, I followed Glossier closely (smiles).
After school, I entered the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy for marketing. While studying there, I was finally convinced that I would look for something related to business, preferably in fashion. I was interested in how brands shape a product, how they make this product sell all over the world in the largest retailers. For example, Harrods was one of my biggest dreams.
At that moment, Sleeper was looking for an intern for the sales department. Everything I had seen and read about Sleeper before that inspired me a lot. When I read the story about how the girls (Asya Varetsa and Katya Zubareva, co-founders of Sleeper — ed. note) started the business from scratch, about what kind of product it was, what idea was behind it, I wanted to be a part of it. And at 19, I came to Sleeper. Asya was already living in New York at that time, I had a remote interview with her — a very interesting experience for me. At that time, Sleeper still had a small team — only 10 people. I remember that at the time when I was still a student and came for the interview, I already had many ideas of what could be done. I was accepted — and from that moment on, the long journey of building the sales department that we have now began.
And: — So you were studying at the same time and already working at Sleeper?
D: — Yes, I got this job in my third year. After two years of studying, I realized that I had too many ideas — I really wanted to go and do it. To translate what was in my head into real projects.
And: — When you came to Sleeper, what were your responsibilities?
D: — A lot of things (laughs). At that time, the areas of responsibility in our company were largely blurred, but that was normal for that scale. But we had a division into wholesale and retail sales from the very beginning, because these are two different parts of the business. My department deals only with wholesale sales. At the very beginning, I helped Asya with managing small clients and finding new ones.
Six months after starting work at the company — when I was 19 — my first Paris (Fashion Market in Paris during Fashion Week — ed. note) happened. It was the brand's first exhibition in Paris and my first independent trip as a sales manager. It gave us a huge boost in development. I met our future clients in person for the first time — Harvey Nichols, Net-a-Porter, Bloomingdale's. This really helped broaden our understanding of what other brands were on the market, how B2B sales generally worked, because we started doing it intuitively. But even then, we knew that Sleeper had to be in the largest department stores in the world. We never aimed only at the local market — we immediately wanted Sleeper to be represented all over the world.
And: — Did Asya and Katya understand from the very beginning that they were not creating a retail brand?
D: — It was always a mix of retail and B2B. We started with Ukrainian retailers — you, for example, have been with us for years (laughs).
And: "Six years exactly. Or seven."
D: — Yes, as long as Sleeper has existed, Ogonyok has been with us. But from the very beginning we started working with Moda Operandi and smaller stores — in Denmark. At the beginning we communicated via emails — there were no meetings then. From the very beginning we aimed at the US market — most of our retail audience was and continues to be there. And of course, I had my own goals for Sleeper — I really wanted our things to be sold in the largest department stores. Among them were Barneys, Harrods and so on. Paris gave us an understanding of what to do so that the end consumer gets the best possible experience of interacting with our brand through our partner.
And: — Tell me more about this, please, it's a very interesting topic. What insights did you have, what conclusions did you draw during the trip regarding a better understanding of the businesses that represent you? What did you subsequently change, what did you fix, what did you add to the company?
D: — We are always very sensitive to the feedback of all our customers — both end customers and our partners. Actually, Paris helped us a lot with this. It was very important for us to understand which collections we should make better, how we should make them better, what sells better, what doesn’t. What the customer needs. Here is a very important point: during conversations about what our end customer needs — people who buy from our stores — we collected feedback, thanks to which we later improved the product by developing collections. For example, realizing that our customers really like our dresses, we asked ourselves the question: how can we make them even better, so that they fit even better? What colors should we add? Our customers really liked linen — how can we work with it more? We realized that we were moving in the right direction — constant product improvement.
And: — In Paris, you really always get the maximum amount of information — everyone is open to it, plus in personal communication it is always the most effective. Online you will never achieve sincerity, because a letter is still a dry story. But when you communicate with a person in person — they see you, what you are like, you start some kind of small talk. You start asking questions — and your interlocutor, of course, is happy to answer.
D: — Yes, of course, everyone is happy to answer questions and give advice. People generally like to give advice (laughs). In our company, English is an important and necessary part of the job.
It is very important to speak with our partners not just in the same language, but in common senses.
These subtleties sometimes become very important in how the conversation develops. How well you understand your partner and what he is talking about, you can hear certain details, little things that, in general, may not change the meaning, but will change the tone. In Paris, communication is also an important part of the work, so it is necessary to do it professionally and qualitatively. There, we did not miss a single meeting and collected absolutely all the feedback we could. In addition, it was important for us to hear from the potential partner about their vision, their work. About how they work with the client, build their business, what their values and approaches are. What service they offer to our end client. I believe that all this is very important, because when our client anywhere in the world comes to the store and buys Sleeper, he should receive the appropriate level of service. And receive the experience that our brand provides.
And: — It turns out that partners, on their part, teach you their experience, and you share yours — for better sales.
D: — Of course. We always work with our stores to improve their sales. It seems to me that the synergy of what the store can offer and what we can offer to make the brand sell well is a win-win. The partnership we always strive for is a long-term relationship. That's why we always work on samples, always see what works best where. Before the new season, we start planning what we can offer to whom. For a business to be successful, a constant two-way partnership is necessary.
Our partner's successful business is our successful business.
And: — I'm sure that after your first trip to Paris you made a quantum leap in the volume of orders. How did your work change in connection with this? Did you then stop doing logistics and everything else that is not directly related to sales? How did you cope with such a rapid growth in production and sales volumes, and how did the company change in connection with this?
D: — Our quantum leap occurred, rather, after we started working with Net-a-Porter. This is one of our key partners now — a fairly large online retailer with whom we have been cooperating for the third year. At that time, we were already represented in Barneys and Harrods. And of course, after Net-a-Porter, the number of stores representing us began to grow organically — mainly in the American market. The growth was really sudden, and we had to adapt a lot of processes to the new realities. Then we realized that it was time to build a team, because without it we could very easily lose in service quality. We began to grow gradually and very logically. We did not immediately inflate the staff — for about six months we tried to understand how to build everything as best as possible. It was important for me to find an answer to the question of whether such growth would be permanent or was this a one-time phenomenon. We watched how our partners behaved, how much real work we had. And after six months, I realized that we had confidently reached a new scale. Since then, we have really managed to grow constantly. We started building a team, hiring managers, promoting managers to team leaders.
If you want to scale your business, it is impossible to continue operating in the same format you were in at the very beginning.
You need to separate functions, form departments, and each team should do its part — then you will really do it efficiently and, most importantly, you will have the opportunity to grow, do more, and improve in every aspect.
And: — How many people work in your department?
D: — There are five of us now. This is a wonderful assistant, managers, team leader. Each employee has his own region for which he is responsible. Currently, we are a global brand: we have more than 22 markets and more than 100 active partners around the world. In each market, we try to build long-term cooperation with our partners. And it's about bringing value to their client, who is also our client. He can buy our things all over the world in the best stores both online and offline.
For me, especially since the beginning of quarantine, it was very important that we were available where our customers could buy us. I think that for many brands and retailers, the situation with covid-19 has shown that you need to be where the customer is. And if the customer is online, be online. This does not mean that you do not need to be represented offline - I still believe that physical retail is a very important part of sales. This is the experience that a person can only get in a store, during personal communication. However, online cannot be ignored - it must be mandatory.
And: — If you believe that offline experience is an important part of your work, why don't you still have your own retail stores?
D: — Since we started working with B2B, the function of our retail stores was performed by our partners' stores. That is, the entire physical experience that you can get with the brand happens through them. Your own store is a slightly different story, because it is very important to approach everything consciously and with an understanding of what additional experience you want to bring to your customers.
And: — We touched on the topic of quarantine — it is still relevant. How was your work during quarantine? Where did the quarantine, which began during the season, find you?
D: — My colleague and I were just in Paris. It was our first season at Polly King — a showroom that Asya and I had dreamed of collaborating with when I first joined Sleeper. We were very inspired and happy to be there among so many great brands. The first few days were very active, with a large flow of buyers from all over the world. But at some point, in the midst of the showroom, news broke that covid-19 was already in Europe, cases of infection had already been registered in Paris — and many of our company partners were literally banned from going to the market. Our buyers were canceling meetings en masse — the situation was very alarming. There was total uncertainty: I didn't understand how we would close the season and what would happen next. I remember a lot of designers just gathering and leaving in the middle of the showroom. No one understood anything. When we returned to Kyiv, it became clear that the situation was very turbulent. Physical retail was closed, and not everyone had yet managed to complete their online business.
And: — We launched the online store three months before the quarantine, in December 2019 — I intuitively felt that it was necessary. Of course, it was still not perfect, and the quarantine gave me the opportunity to make it the way I saw it. In our case, it was a coincidence.
D: — Many of our partners launched their websites on the fly. For us and our partners, quarantine became a point of growth. In June, we held our first digital showroom. The team reorganized very quickly — we basically didn't have a question about how to sell (laughs). We contacted our key partners, found out how it would be more convenient for them to place orders, and reformatted quite quickly. It seems to me that in a world that moves at such a fast pace, it is very important for businesses to understand that they need to be flexible.
Our first digital showroom was quite successful - now we work exclusively in this format every season. Of course, it can't be compared to personal communication, but for the most part we did everything the same as in Paris. Quarantine showed us that it is possible - it is just another channel of communication with our B2B clients.
And: — How has your personal retail changed during the quarantine period? After all, all your communication, all your PR was aimed at making your Instagram even more active with your end consumer. How has the ratio of wholesale and retail changed under the influence of quarantine?
D: — We have a synergy of wholesale and market sales. I think, with the right approach, it should be like this: wholesale sales strengthen retail. This is mutually beneficial marketing on the one hand, and on the other - different sales channels. During the quarantine, our retail grew. Throughout the quarantine, we watched our customers work from home in Sleeper pajamas - it was very important and pleasant for us that they also support us in this way.
And the same with wholesale sales. During quarantine, we were once again convinced that it is important to expand, diversify our wholesale channels, and enter new markets.
We realized that it is worth being with those partners who are ready and able to adapt to the new reality.
We began to be more careful about who we work with and how we work, and to expand our presence in the world even more actively. Both online and offline, where possible.
So during quarantine, the idea came to establish a corporate direction - to work with businesses for their needs. We are now actively developing it. In addition, thinking about how we can solve the problem of unsold stock, we started working with the popular luxury goods resale platform The RealReal.
And: — It turns out that quarantine played a positive role for you. Tell me, how much has the number of team members changed during quarantine?
D: — Our team has grown and continues to grow. Even in crisis situations, it is important to be able to look at everything from a different angle. The main mission of our brand is to carry the value of care and love for yourself. In a situation when everything around is unstable and uncertain, this was more important than ever.
And: — Speaking of plans for the future, tell me, do you have any dreams now, like Harrods used to be?
D: — Yes, we are currently launching with Net-a-Porter in China — for me personally, it is very interesting. In general, the entire Asian market seems very interesting to me — it is very special, and now we will actively work on being there as well. Those are big plans (laughs).
A few years ago, we had an incredible launch at Galeries Lafayette with their Champs-Elysées location. For me, that opening was the first bell that retail had to change. The way they approached opening the location, filling it. A person came in and didn't just buy things, but found themselves in a space where they wanted to spend time, where the clothes were just part of the experience. It was a fantastic experience. And I want us to have more partners like that.
And: — Fantastic! Now he suggests moving on to questions related to you personally. What is your favorite thing?
D: — Our Atlanta dress .
And: - What color?
D: — Lavender right now. I have three “Atlantas” in my arsenal, and this is probably not the end yet — I really love this particular dress. I have one for every mood (laughs). For example, the silk version of this dress. This dress model is super versatile and appropriate in any situation.
And: — Your favorite food is…
D: — I get the most pleasure from homemade food. In general, I love sweets, especially brownies (laughs).
And: — Do you like to cook by yourself or in a specific place?
D: — I try to try different places. I am a person who is always interested in trying new things. When time allows, I like to cook myself. I really like lasagna — both cooking and eating it.
And: — What is your favorite pastime?
D: — You know, I really love walking and traveling, even if it's within a small location. There's nothing better than a walk, especially in a beautiful place in nature. Movement is an important part of life for me. I love running, sometimes dancing. But at the same time, I really love comfort and home rituals, watching movies in the evening, so I felt very organically at home during quarantine.
And: — What is your favorite part of the day?
D: — I really love mornings, especially when I get to wake up earlier.
And: — What is your favorite movie?
D: — I love Tarantino (laughs). So the first thing that comes to mind is Inglourious Basterds and Pulp Fiction.
And: — What is your favorite book?
D: — It’s hard to choose one. Right now I’m reading the book “Man’s Search for Meaning” by Viktor Frankl. It’s a very important book, in my opinion, for every person, especially in the situation we all find ourselves in now. It’s about how important it is not to lose the meaning of life, no matter what happens.
And: — What is Ogonyok to you?
D: — Ogonyok is my love, can I say that? (laughs) For me, it is an example of what retail should be. I am very proud that this example exists in Ukraine, that we have such a high-quality and professional business. Ogonyok does not just sell things, but talks to its customers and opens up new cool brands to them. I think you are doing an amazing job and we are very lucky to have you.
And: — It’s very mutual. With your help, I often answer a lot of questions that arise from clients or young people who are trying to create their own brand. For me, how Sleeper was built is the most clear example, which I am very proud of. When I came, you were already working with Ogonyok — then I conducted all the communication with Asya and Katya, and then with you. It all happened before my eyes, and I am proud that Sleeper was made in Ukraine.
